In some areas a thorny issue and one I’ve been asked to help explore at Saturday’s London Neighbourhoods Online Unconference.
This event will be the first opportunity that many community sites and blogs from across the capital have had to meet offline and get together to explore issues of mutual concern.
But of course many of their issues will be repeated up and down the country too.
So I’m asking hyperlocal site owners, community news publishers and neighbourhood bloggers, wherever you are – what issues do you have with mainstream media? How would you like to see things move forward?
You’re welcome to help with some input into this session even if you’re not going to be present (or London-based) by letting me know here.
I will also update this blog after the event to share what comes out from the session with you.
Topics I’m thinking about that might be of interest so far are;
- How newspapers are structured i.e. who to contact and how.
- What happens when things go wrong, how complaints are dealt with.
- Copyright and linking. Good practice and things to take into account.
Looking back at the live blog I was involved in at the, TAL unconference in Leeds in April, the session on big media was dominated by questions around content payment and problems with the lifting of content. Are those still big issues for you?
Please do let me know what you think and feel free to share any experiences in this area.
Dim Sum Digital 
General thoughts…
Not treating each other as the enemy is a good start 🙂 It feels like a lot of the skepticism from both sides is based around stories people have heard about the mis-use etc. Shame to base opinions of a whole industry of people on the actions of a few.
Also, I hate to hear it thought of in terms of a transaction. Let’s face it, neither ‘side’ has any money so don’t expect payment for hyperlocal content – if journalists are getting the axe, do you really think papers have the money to outsource to you?
Trad media has a lot to offer, and so do you. Look at the example of the Birmingham Mail Your Communities project (http://www.birminghammail.net/your-communities/) – it’s generating not only exposure but content sharing. We’ve had an article from The Lichfield Blog published in the Birmingham Mail print edition and we’ve been able to use some photos from their archive in our posts. It’s an ongoing relationship, not just based on individual transactions and we’re trusting each other – knowing that all eyes are upon us and our reputations are potentially at stake.
Looking forward to the conference and hoping I get to this session!
LikeLike
General thoughts…
Not treating each other as the enemy is a good start 🙂 It feels like a lot of the skepticism from both sides is based around stories people have heard about the mis-use etc. Shame to base opinions of a whole industry of people on the actions of a few.
Also, I hate to hear it thought of in terms of a transaction. Let’s face it, neither ‘side’ has any money so don’t expect payment for hyperlocal content – if journalists are getting the axe, do you really think papers have the money to outsource to you?
Trad media has a lot to offer, and so do you. Look at the example of the Birmingham Mail Your Communities project (http://www.birminghammail.net/your-communities/) – it’s generating not only exposure but content sharing. We’ve had an article from The Lichfield Blog published in the Birmingham Mail print edition and we’ve been able to use some photos from their archive in our posts. It’s an ongoing relationship, not just based on individual transactions and we’re trusting each other – knowing that all eyes are upon us and our reputations are potentially at stake.
Looking forward to the conference and hoping I get to this session!
LikeLike
It would be nice if local newspaper sites, and the regional BBC/ITV ones, just linked to sites like mine. For one thing it’s simple good manners, but more importantly I think it would improve those sites to have an extra stream of relevant local content on there. I’d be more than happy to put a box on the front page of Saddleworth News with an RSS feed from, say, the Oldham Chronicle, Oldham Advertiser or BBC Manchester. But nobody at any of those places seems much interested in reciprocating. Too bad for them, I say.
LikeLike
Thanks Richard, I was thinking of looking at linking good practice – it’s certainly not widespread atm and continues to be an issue. Will let you know if I hear of any others’ experience in this area.
LikeLike
It would be nice if local newspaper sites, and the regional BBC/ITV ones, just linked to sites like mine. For one thing it’s simple good manners, but more importantly I think it would improve those sites to have an extra stream of relevant local content on there. I’d be more than happy to put a box on the front page of Saddleworth News with an RSS feed from, say, the Oldham Chronicle, Oldham Advertiser or BBC Manchester. But nobody at any of those places seems much interested in reciprocating. Too bad for them, I say.
LikeLike
As another blogger in the same region, I was going to mention the Birmingham Mail, but I see Phillip John already has. I agree that this is a constructive move, and we are certainly getting people coming over from the Mail site to look at us these days. We certainly do our own stories and draw attention to things happening locally which no-one else is covering. That,together with articulating and communicating the viewpoint of the group we represent to a local audience, and carrying a library of information, is what we are there for. However, we quite often publish links to pieces in both the local and the national press, also TV and radio; there are times when there is no point in regurgitating what has already been said by someone else who has done their homework – and who may have pictures as well. The idea is to get information and ideas circulating, not to have a competition. Also, sometimes it useful to point out that the topic is also being more widely debated.
LikeLike
Thanks Julia. Good to hear that the B’ham Mail hook up is giving you benefits. Sounds like the increased traffic via links is a benefit if that’s also contributing to the overall experience for your users. Are there any other benefits you’ve experienced? Or hope for?
LikeLike
As another blogger in the same region, I was going to mention the Birmingham Mail, but I see Phillip John already has. I agree that this is a constructive move, and we are certainly getting people coming over from the Mail site to look at us these days. We certainly do our own stories and draw attention to things happening locally which no-one else is covering. That,together with articulating and communicating the viewpoint of the group we represent to a local audience, and carrying a library of information, is what we are there for. However, we quite often publish links to pieces in both the local and the national press, also TV and radio; there are times when there is no point in regurgitating what has already been said by someone else who has done their homework – and who may have pictures as well. The idea is to get information and ideas circulating, not to have a competition. Also, sometimes it useful to point out that the topic is also being more widely debated.
LikeLike
Thanks Julia. Good to hear that the B’ham Mail hook up is giving you benefits. Sounds like the increased traffic via links is a benefit if that’s also contributing to the overall experience for your users. Are there any other benefits you’ve experienced? Or hope for?
LikeLike
Not deliberately casting the MSM as the enemy by asking ‘what issues you have with them’ as a starting point, especially if the point of the semilar is looking at co-operation and co-existence.
As Philip says above, not treating each other as the enemy is important, if only to avoid messy situations like Humberside breaking out.
Both ‘amateur’ and ‘pro’ hyperlocal and local services (by which I mean ones run by one man bands or smaller operations, and ones run by larger media groups such as the new STV Local project) have much to offer each other in terms of resources, links, experience and intelligence. So poking the former with an MSM-shaped stick seems a bit provocative..
LikeLike
In reply to Sarah – well increased stats is always good, if it is helping to get the message out. Beyond that, we may find more over time, but one odd one that occurs to me right now is that being aware that The Mail is now looking for new stories from the local blogs to feature on its local blogs page, one day a week, is going to be a good mind concentrator I think …
LikeLike
I had a similar thought to Iain’s when I first read your post but the more I think about it, the more important I think it is that these sorts of sessions enable people to express their concerns and issues about working with the mainstream media.
I think the TAL session you referred to is the one I was involved in with Phil. It flushed out a lot of issues – many more than just payment and lifting of copy from my memory – which I’ve since worked on with various people to try and improve various relationships. It’s only by finding out what the issues are (often misunderstandings) on both sides that it becomes possible to work out if a relationship is desirable. I guess the biggest thing I’ve learnt in the last 18 months is that no two hyperlocal/community sites are driven by entirely the same motivation, and I would argue that it’s similar in the MSM. Some newsrooms are more open to finding ways to work together than others.
Good luck today – will you be posting on it?
LikeLike
Thanks for the comment David – didn’t see it before I left for London but yes you’re right that a one-approach-fits-all proposal won’t solve the issue.
LikeLike
Not deliberately casting the MSM as the enemy by asking ‘what issues you have with them’ as a starting point, especially if the point of the semilar is looking at co-operation and co-existence.
As Philip says above, not treating each other as the enemy is important, if only to avoid messy situations like Humberside breaking out.
Both ‘amateur’ and ‘pro’ hyperlocal and local services (by which I mean ones run by one man bands or smaller operations, and ones run by larger media groups such as the new STV Local project) have much to offer each other in terms of resources, links, experience and intelligence. So poking the former with an MSM-shaped stick seems a bit provocative..
LikeLike
In reply to Sarah – well increased stats is always good, if it is helping to get the message out. Beyond that, we may find more over time, but one odd one that occurs to me right now is that being aware that The Mail is now looking for new stories from the local blogs to feature on its local blogs page, one day a week, is going to be a good mind concentrator I think …
LikeLike
I had a similar thought to Iain’s when I first read your post but the more I think about it, the more important I think it is that these sorts of sessions enable people to express their concerns and issues about working with the mainstream media.
I think the TAL session you referred to is the one I was involved in with Phil. It flushed out a lot of issues – many more than just payment and lifting of copy from my memory – which I’ve since worked on with various people to try and improve various relationships. It’s only by finding out what the issues are (often misunderstandings) on both sides that it becomes possible to work out if a relationship is desirable. I guess the biggest thing I’ve learnt in the last 18 months is that no two hyperlocal/community sites are driven by entirely the same motivation, and I would argue that it’s similar in the MSM. Some newsrooms are more open to finding ways to work together than others.
Good luck today – will you be posting on it?
LikeLike
Thanks for the comment David – didn’t see it before I left for London but yes you’re right that a one-approach-fits-all proposal won’t solve the issue.
LikeLike
Hi Sarah,
Since August the Birmingham Mail has been working with around 25 hyperlocals and bloggers on our “Your Communities” platform (http://www.birminghammail.net/your-communities/).
As Philip John said above, it’s a partnership based on trust and working together in a mutually beneficial way – not transactions and cash.
The first thing newspapers can do, both online and in print, is credit blogs with their name and url on a story which has had their input.
Also, we’re happy to share photos on a case by case basis.
And, as an established mainstream media organisation we can often give bloggers a hand in investigating matters.
For example, a call from a reporter at the Mail can often get a response from a council where a blogger has been fobbed off.
In terms of structure I don’t believe much has changed here. It has always been the case that if you care about your area, and you want issues raised in the press, then you should nurture a good relationship with a reporter who covers your area.
In terms of what happenss when things go wrong I don’t think their is a single answer to this.
As communities editor for the Mail I’m conscious different people have different reasons for getting involved with us. I’m constantly keeping my ear out for gripes and if we can change things around to keep everyone happy then we will do.
After all, for us at least, this is still a fluid and dynamic partnership that could evolve in many different ways.
LikeLike
Thanks for that Paul – very helpful and inspiring to hear that the Mail helps out when bloggers need a bit of assistance.
LikeLike
Hi Sarah,
Since August the Birmingham Mail has been working with around 25 hyperlocals and bloggers on our “Your Communities” platform (http://www.birminghammail.net/your-communities/).
As Philip John said above, it’s a partnership based on trust and working together in a mutually beneficial way – not transactions and cash.
The first thing newspapers can do, both online and in print, is credit blogs with their name and url on a story which has had their input.
Also, we’re happy to share photos on a case by case basis.
And, as an established mainstream media organisation we can often give bloggers a hand in investigating matters.
For example, a call from a reporter at the Mail can often get a response from a council where a blogger has been fobbed off.
In terms of structure I don’t believe much has changed here. It has always been the case that if you care about your area, and you want issues raised in the press, then you should nurture a good relationship with a reporter who covers your area.
In terms of what happenss when things go wrong I don’t think their is a single answer to this.
As communities editor for the Mail I’m conscious different people have different reasons for getting involved with us. I’m constantly keeping my ear out for gripes and if we can change things around to keep everyone happy then we will do.
After all, for us at least, this is still a fluid and dynamic partnership that could evolve in many different ways.
LikeLike
Thanks for that Paul – very helpful and inspiring to hear that the Mail helps out when bloggers need a bit of assistance.
LikeLike
No provocation. You’re looking at this from the big media end of the telescope. The session I’ve been asked to do on Saturday is for community news sites, bloggers and hyperlocal publishers. They have issues and concerns that are different to yours and the point of this blogpost is to invite them to share those experiences so I know what issues to look at in the session with them. Help with knowledge sharing. That’s how to bring down barriers. Understanding.
LikeLike
No provocation. You’re looking at this from the big media end of the telescope. The session I’ve been asked to do on Saturday is for community news sites, bloggers and hyperlocal publishers. They have issues and concerns that are different to yours and the point of this blogpost is to invite them to share those experiences so I know what issues to look at in the session with them. Help with knowledge sharing. That’s how to bring down barriers. Understanding.
LikeLike
“Also, I hate to hear it thought of in terms of a transaction. Let’s face it, neither ‘side’ has any money so don’t expect payment for hyperlocal content – if journalists are getting the axe, do you really think papers have the money to outsource to you?”
I really, REALLY disagree with this.
By removing the transaction element you remove a huge slice of professionalism. You’re saying “I’m not expecting any money for my work, it’s not worth it” – and this separates you as an amateur.
I’m not saying every morsel of content you produce can be sold – but unless you can rise one sizeable, sell-able story per month I’d argue you were doing it wrong.
In the same way local papers pay photographers, they can pay you too (especially if you can provide pics as well… obviously…).
It’s remarkable how quickly “we don’t have any budget” turns into “I’m sure we can find some money somewhere” when you present a good enough story.
It’s not outsourcing, it’s buying in expertise. Be open with an editor – ask them what they would like to do more of … there’ll be loads of issues they wish they could get stuck into but can’t. If you seal a good interview, why drop them a line before you go and see if there are any questions they’d like to drop in.
I just think abandoning our worth from the off is a bad way to approach business – and certainly does nothing to improve the relationship between bloggers and MSM.
Great post Sarah.
LikeLike
Hi Dave, thanks for your point, well made. I’ll see what I can include tomorrow on the topic of payment and see what other bloggers’ experiences are too.
LikeLike
“Also, I hate to hear it thought of in terms of a transaction. Let’s face it, neither ‘side’ has any money so don’t expect payment for hyperlocal content – if journalists are getting the axe, do you really think papers have the money to outsource to you?”
I really, REALLY disagree with this.
By removing the transaction element you remove a huge slice of professionalism. You’re saying “I’m not expecting any money for my work, it’s not worth it” – and this separates you as an amateur.
I’m not saying every morsel of content you produce can be sold – but unless you can rise one sizeable, sell-able story per month I’d argue you were doing it wrong.
In the same way local papers pay photographers, they can pay you too (especially if you can provide pics as well… obviously…).
It’s remarkable how quickly “we don’t have any budget” turns into “I’m sure we can find some money somewhere” when you present a good enough story.
It’s not outsourcing, it’s buying in expertise. Be open with an editor – ask them what they would like to do more of … there’ll be loads of issues they wish they could get stuck into but can’t. If you seal a good interview, why drop them a line before you go and see if there are any questions they’d like to drop in.
I just think abandoning our worth from the off is a bad way to approach business – and certainly does nothing to improve the relationship between bloggers and MSM.
Great post Sarah.
LikeLike